Geez, you try to help some people.............

[Rev JJ]

Is it just me, or does it seem that if I offer any comments that could be even remotely construed as Negative to old iron going overseas, certain other folks at other places loose their minds and go on the attack.

Case in point, I was commenting about a person who sandblasted and painted a boiler PRIOR to doing a UT mapping ( the person stated that a UT was still to be done)..what I said was that it is getting the cart before the horse. I also offered the very truthful observation that most inspectors look at the owner as much as the boiler (rightly or wrongly), and that worrying about paint before proper boiler inspection and repair will make most inspectors question priorities.

One person basically said that it was none of my business, and another went on some wierdo tangient on how much more thorough European inspections are and how good shot blasting and zinc coating is.

Right now, all I am concerned with is making sure that some one that has more money than sense (or experience) doesn't pull another You Know Where Ohio on us...with the new appendix C out, the ball is now in our court. And even if something happens overseas, it will give the wrong people the right ammunition. I have too much of my life invested in steam power for some overseas trust fund baby to screw it up.

[Kelly Barnett]

Jim,
I understand that you were trying to point out that it would have been a good idea to get any and all tests done to the boiler before cosmetic jobs being done to it because the prep work and painting could possibly in vain. Unless they didn't care if they had invested that much lost time and effort into a big yard ornament, If the boiler was deemed bad of course. It has seemed to me that many people are on the defensive these days for some reason. Individuals that are out to give some useful information on the better way to conduct a restoration are sometimes given the , "Oh how dare you infer that I don't know how to do things" mindset. Some people just know everything. Just ask them and they will tell you. Kind of like some us were when we were in our late teens. HMMMM. How that view changed for me. Common sense and logical thinking aren't very common place with alot of the people I deal with. So for one to think foreward enough to see that the efforts might be wasted just wouldn't cross their mind. We all learn things differently. Maybe this will work out ok for them or it will be a great learning experience for them. I know I usually listen to other views so it could make my life easier. Being head strong might feel good but it could be the precoursor to some hard knocks. The old iron hobby doesn't need any outside interest groups giving it any hard knocks though. Please don't get too frustrated with some snoot spouting back when all you were trying to do was give some better direction to possibly save some time, which none of us can reverse, and money, which we all can use more of. Take care rev.

[David H]

J J, I think Kelly has said it prety well, and too, think about how hard it is to convey your feelings on a computer screen. If you're already a lil put off by someone, or are just being defensive about a certain matter, what is said can really be taken wrong.
Sometimes its best to just let some of these things blow over-- if they will.

[Dave Fuller]

Rev. JJ, have faith! So often people's efforts to help out get brushed off and unnoticed, and they have to learn for themselves. Even if I find myself ever not agreeing with your opinion or feelings on an issue, I'd still respect you for your opinions and feelings! Better to have your cards on the table and know where you stand than to be grazing on the greener grass and straddling the fence. I myself know first-hand how quick some are to judge, and sometimes it seems no matter what you say, they put up a mental block, in my case being "just a kid" or whatnot. . . I appreciate and welcome your input on any and every post I make, for the simple fact, I know quite well that I don't know everything, and need other people to correct me when I'm wrong.

Dave Fuller

[Rev JJ]

I guess what really torqued me was that the foreign moderator had the audacity to flat out state that American boiler inspections were a lot less stringent that European ones. As someone who makes his living as a boiler inspector, with a National Board Commision, I find such statements not only offensive but patently untrue.

What I really want to say is that if our boiler inspections are so inferior to the European model, then it would follow so our engines would be as well, so why don't overseas wankers quit buying them?

[David H]

J J , i had to go back & re-read that stuff. I do agree with you on the inferiority deal. At first what he wrote made sense to me-- then I looked again, and could really see your point, and David from NC had a nice reply too.
Still. maybe thats what their inspectors want?? Never know, after all, we are the "different" ones over here-- rebels, if you will??

[GaarScott]

Rev. Jim Jake and others,

Yes, I agree, your opinion of the cosmetic painting was right on with the information that we had up to date. However, the way you presented it and the fact that it is well known that you, myself and a few others have led the path that we don't like seeing our engines sold into foreign lands, sort of sets the stage on any posts we post on. We have to be extremely careful in how we post as they; Europeans are going to take automatic offense to whatever we have to say, just as we seem to do for them. With that being said, Lister Diesel's comments were unfounded and you can see there is a real double standard taking place. I'm extremely disappointed about that. I, like David H., liked David from N.C. comments. He called it for what it was.

On one more note....with the advancement of technology has come the development of a UT machine that can distinguish between paint and metal. Therefore, you can UT a boiler with paint on. If their inspection department uses such UT's, which is only a couple hundred bucks over the one I currently have, then painting it wouldn't have been in vane. I can understand blasting the boiler to get all foreign material off of the boiler to obtain solid UT readings. I can also understand lightly priming the boiler to keep surface rust from taking place. But I would have expressed my steps knowing the animosity that is quite prevalent between foreign and North American owners. Not everyone has restored a steam engine and it is a different process than restoring a gas tractor....as many of us know first hand.

Lawrence

[Rev JJ]

I would say that the most obvious thing that has taken place is we can all see what prejudiced frauds the moderators are "over there". Did you notice the middle finger the English offender who started the whole thing stuck up, when he was asked to explain or make an apology for stating that the American inspection process is inferior and inadequate?

"What I found truly interesting, is that Miss Manners, when confronted with a plain and simple question...what was your state's inspecton process before and after Medina?..does nothing more than trot out her usual claptrap about her dad and their unparalled contribution to NTA, and, oh, she works for a bank and went to school...none which answered Davids question."

(Rev. Jim Jake, Although at the moment I'm going to leave your comments as they are, as we discussed, they do have an underligning tone. I just don't want folks to think that there is going to be favortism going on on this site since I'm one of the moderators and your friend. I intend to hold myself to a higher standard and hope that I don't fail anyone by doing so. I know you know what tone you were/are trying to get across. Although the jest of the statement doesn't belittle Beth, it does call into question her motives and she may take offense as such. All I ask is that, even when angry, we try and keep a civil head about ourselves....take the higher road!)

I really don't think the owner of that site is as much the problem as is his self serving moderators. I am thankful that this site is available, and free from the foreign lucre led politics of other places.

BTW Our moderators here are doing a really good job...maybe its because they don't have an agenda.

[GaarScott]

Rev. Jim Jake,

Oh yeah, I have an agenda....its to keep the civil peace and be loved by everyone!

Lawrence

[Mizz Boss]

I would say that the most obvious thing that has taken place is we can all see what prejudiced frauds the moderators are "over there". Did you notice the middle finger the English offender who started the whole thing stuck up, when he was asked to explain or make an apology for stating that the American inspection process is inferior and inadequate?

What I found truly interesting, is that Miss Manners, when confronted with a plain and simple question...what was your state's inspecton process before and after Medina?..does nothing more than trot out her usual claptrap about her dad and their unparalled contribution to NTA, and, oh, she works for a bank and went to school...none which answered Davids question.

I really don't think the owner of that site is as much the problem as is his self serving moderators. I am thankful that this site is available, and free from the foreign lucre led politics of other places.

BTW Our moderators here are doing a really good job...maybe its because they don't have an agenda.

I agree with you and all of you. tell them like it is. We have freedom of speech here. I think lol
Mizz Boss

[JKWIDENER]

I totally agree, Freedom of speech is a must in this world. But some Website Moderators think they are better than thow and they can moderate your speech no matter what it takes. As far as I'm concerned, those moderators can kiss my bright white posterior. " I know they will be sneaking around and reading this" Thats about all they are good for is SNEAKING around and hiding behind someones back that will protect them like the children that they are. Just my 2 cents worth. Don't worry guys and gals, we do believe in the Freedom Of Speech on this site, and if they don't like it, then as one of them always says, "THEN LEAVE".

[Rev JJ]

LIke my Grandmother said,"An honest man has no fear of the truth." Didja notice how every post, from lippy, gaarscott, and myself have all been removed? You know, folks usually don't dodge bullets unless they are hitting pretty close in..............

[Rev JJ]

Rev. JJ, have faith! So often people's efforts to help out get brushed off and unnoticed, and they have to learn for themselves. Even if I find myself ever not agreeing with your opinion or feelings on an issue, I'd still respect you for your opinions and feelings! Better to have your cards on the table and know where you stand than to be grazing on the greener grass and straddling the fence. I myself know first-hand how quick some are to judge, and sometimes it seems no matter what you say, they put up a mental block, in my case being "just a kid" or whatnot. . . I appreciate and welcome your input on any and every post I make, for the simple fact, I know quite well that I don't know everything, and need other people to correct me when I'm wrong.

Dave Fuller

Don't worry about "being just a kid"...learn as much as you can from who you can, and a mistake is usually as educational (though usually more painful) as something more, er, successful. I toted a lot of wood, drug hoses, and greased a lot of rod ends before I was up on an engine "for realsies". But you know what? I also sought out those with knowledge and a wee bit of the wisdom that experience and age will win, combined that with an appetite for old techinical books, and, woke up one day to be appointed as a resource member of the Texas Historic Boiler Task Force. I was 19. That was twenty years ago...now I am a Deputy Inspector with a National Board Commission, an Arkansas State Boiler operators lisence, a locomotive engineer certificaion, and a 13hp NS in the boiler shop......and you know what? I am still learning, but I know more today than I did yesterday.

And just remember, nobody is incapable of learning except those who know it all

[David H]

Hmmm, went and looked, All posts, on all the threads I looked at had all the posts from JJ, Lippy, and Lawrence removed-- offensive or not. And I guess "offensive" is in the eye of the beholder?

And:

Don't worry about "being just a kid"...learn as much as you can from who you can, and a mistake is usually as educational (though usually more painful) as something more, er, successful.

An old man that used to "hold forth" quite often, on my uncles old country store porch, had this to say, and I learned the hard way, that its very true.
" The best lesson is a bought lesson---- if you don't pay too much for it""

[JKWIDENER]

If you try to click on one of those three members posts that is still there, Lippy's name goes to a moderators profile and Garr Scott's goes to some one elses profile and JJ's goes to some one else also.